Transcript Dana: All right everyone, welcome back to another episode of Equity Evolution. My name is Dana, and we are going to be getting into another episode speaking and responding to a comment that we actually received from one of our EP, our previous episodes that we recorded. Basically revolving around, we call it the inclusion illusion. And Alexandra, do you want to read the comment so then we can kind of break down the bullets and main points of this comment and just go through the episode speaking about it? Alexandra: Yeah, absolutely. I want to say that this comment was on our episode, “Why do DEI programs fail?” And in that episode, we actually go through nine very common reasons why DEI programs and changes in companies fail. So we do recommend that you go and watch or listen to that episode, whether you are listening on the podcast or watching on YouTube. It gives a lot of really good information. But this person, their comment was, “They fail because they begin with an assumptive problem. There is no validation that DEI is an issue. Consequently, employees sit through lectures knowing what a waste of time they are. Here’s all the proof you need: cite an example where a company went through some consultants DEI program and could identify specific business metrics that changed.” Dana: All right, my first response to this was, like, I can’t even. I can’t even right now. I had to put my phone down and walk away. I was like, what? What is this? Well, let’s start with this. Let’s talk about assumption. Let’s talk about what assumption means. This means that a company would be assuming that there’s a DEI issue or DIB issue within the organization, and then they would then put money into a DEI program. First and foremost, no company’s going to assume and put money into anything that they’re assuming to do to implement and invest money into anything regarding anything because money spent is money spent. And there is no need to be wasting money in huge organizations or even small organizations at that. So let’s start there. Alexandra: Secondly, DEI programs are not built on assumption. DEI programs are built from an organization gathering the data from their organization, which is the people of the organization, where they have understood that there needs to be some sort of DEI programming within their organization. Absolutely. The other piece of this portion of the comment, “There is no validation that DEI is an issue.” That statement in and of itself, I don’t even know where to start with how wrong that is. I guess wrong isn’t even necessarily the right word of what I’m looking for. It’s saying that DEI is an issue, but it’s not about DEI being an issue. It’s the symptoms of what happens when a company is not prioritizing DEIB, right? So you’re going to see symptoms of that in—you don’t have a diverse workforce when you don’t have a culture of equity or belonging or inclusion. And so DEI being an issue is going to come out in symptoms, not DEI being the problem. It’s the lack of DEI that is the problem within the organization, and that comes out with a lack of innovation, that comes out with high turnover, that comes in with stagnation of the company itself. So there are very much problems within organizations when they lack diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. Agreed. Dana: And I also feel like the other part of this with the comment, to me, this reads of a person who is in some sort of leadership. And I’ve talked before about how leadership and the people that are doing the work in the organization and how far removed sometimes people can be, how leadership can be from the things that are going on in the organization. You and I can be in the same pillar of the organization, and we could be having a conversation, but we don’t know that we’re safe enough to go speak to the leader to let them know all of the DEI issues or other issues that are going on in the company. So how would you know that this is going on if we don’t even feel psychologically safe to even come to you, leader, to tell you this is what’s been happening? And maybe there is a DEI issue in the organization that you have no idea about, which I think we’ve talked about in other episodes is the silence itself speaks volumes. Just because nobody said anything to you does not mean that it’s a problem. Like people not saying things is a show that there’s a problem in and of itself. You just said, like, there’s no psychological safety in the environment. That’s a problem. I think that there are a lot of leaders who would push back on that and just say, “Oh, these younger generations are too sensitive. Like, if you have a problem and you don’t speak up about it, that’s a you problem.” But retaliation is very much a thing. People being worried that they’re going to lose their jobs or that they’re not going to get picked for a project or they’re not going to get a raise, that’s a problem. And people would choose to not say something about an issue if they’re worried about any of those things. Like, why would you risk my own well-being for something that you’re not going to change because you’ve never showed me your willingness to change? Alexandra: Well, and it’s those types of ideals that keep people silent, you know? Like, no one wants to be the whistleblower in the workplace. No one wants to be the one who has to step up to the plate. We’ve also talked about, like you said, retaliation. I’ve told my story where I worked for an organization and was the main one that did the DEI work and didn’t realize the target that I was, while being the only black and gay male doing the work in the organization, but also in all of my senior leadership, it’s white presenting. So, you know, you never really know, and retaliation is a huge issue when it comes to things like this and issues like this. Yeah, 100%. So then the next part of the comment that I want to address, so this person states, “Here’s all the proof you need: cite an example where a company went through some program and specific business metrics changed.” Absolutely. We came with receipts, no problem, happy to give that. So we’ve got research that shows that companies are 35% more likely to outperform their less diverse counterparts. That was done by McKinsey and Company, a very prevalent and well-known company that does a lot of business research. Like, that’s a very reputable source of information. It also—they found that inclusive companies are more likely to attract top talent, foster innovation, and have better customer orientation. Like, that’s just one of them. We have a bunch of other examples that we want to share too. Dana: Yeah, and I do want to highlight this one about a DOITT study found that DEIB offers companies a 46% increase in competitive advantage in industry, 40% better and more accurate decision-making, and a 34% increase in financial performance and many other benefits. And DOITT has been one of the leading companies in DEIB studies and things like that. They’re super big and super popular. So if you don’t believe the first one, the second one definitely gives you some facts for sure. Yeah, and then we also have enhanced collaboration and employee retention. Any leader knows how expensive it is to replace people. But just as a reminder, if you have to replace somebody within your organization, it can cost you six to nine times more than their annual salary just to replace them. Like, that doesn’t even talk about all the other fallout that comes from having a gap in that spot being open because some of that is hard to measure, but it’s a ripple effect within the organization, right? So, Change Board actually found that diverse workplaces led to employees collaborating 57% better with their peers. That’s huge. Being able to have team engagement and collaboration, you get to solutions way faster than when people are siloed and doing it by themselves. People work 12% harder and are 19% more likely to stay with their organization longer. Like, that’s huge. Those are all huge numbers that have real bottom-line impact on profitability. Alexandra: Yes, and these showcase what happens when DEI is implemented and how these companies have gone in the direction to implement these things. Right? And just like one of the lines in this says, “The employees sit through lectures knowing what a waste of time they are.” Where, again, it is all about how your organization decides to implement your DEI programs—microaggression trainings, antibi- anti-racist racism trainings, and cultural awareness trainings all are great trainings. You definitely should take those trainings. But employees can take those trainings on their own. When you’re implementing a DEIB program within your organization, you are implementing something that is going to make everybody come together in cohesion to be able to speak about issues, implement new issues, and be able to talk about these things. It does not have to be a lecture, but that’s also up to the organization and how in the process of how they want to implement them. So this is a very loaded statement because it’s all about how the organization chooses to implement these things within the organization. Dana: Yeah, that’s a really great highlight. And I appreciate you pointing that out because how companies choose to do it will definitely affect the kind of impact that it has. Are you choosing to do this in a performative manner where you’re like, “Okay, we put up our pride flag, and we put up Black Lives Matter for June, and we said happy Juneteenth on our internet page, and then we addressed, you know, Juno heritage month, for example.” Like, was it that performance? We had people come in, you know, lunch and learn, and they just spoke about things, but there was no systemic change within the organization. There was no pay equity that happened. There was no equal access or equitable access to mentorship or training or promotions or changes in policies and procedures. If there’s no systemic change within the organization, then yes, there’s not going to be any sort of measurable effects for the bottom line in the company because nothing changed, right? It was performative. Alexandra: Right. And that goes right into the piece that where it says, “Many are going to resent the implication they are guilty.” Well, let me tell you, just plain and simple, if you’re guilty of something, then that means you are guilty. That means that you have probably done something to either offend or have said something out of line to one of your employees or have done something out of line. People who are guilty will always feel guilty and can resent anybody that made them feel guilty because they are guilty. That up there is—if the shoe doesn’t fit, why are you putting it on? Come on. Like, you’re choosing to put that on, so there’s information in there. Dana: Yeah. Why are you feeling guilty? Like, let’s talk about that. If your response to somebody sharing with you that they are experiencing microaggressions, they are experiencing barriers to equity, and your immediate response is, “Well, I didn’t do that,” why? Why? Where is that coming from? Because that is—that’s where the personal work starts. If you are having big emotional reactions to somebody else sharing their experience in the world and it isn’t empathy and, “Oh my gosh, how do we change this? Because that shouldn’t be true for anyone,” that’s where it starts. That’s what you got to start to unpack and unlearn. That’s your first indication that there’s some work to be done. Agreed. Do we want to get into this last line? Alexandra: Yeah, we can. I also actually want to, before we get into that last line because that one is a doozy in and of itself, the—you know, the whole, like, I’ve discussed this with other CEOs, similar reactions, absent measurable proof that there’s a problem. Again, we already talked about the measurable proof that there’s a problem. It’s very clear measurable proof when there’s a problem, like, do you have a diversity issue within your company that is measurable through who is in your company? What demographics currently make up your company? And do they match the demographics of the country as a whole? Because if they don’t, like, then that’s, quote-unquote, a diversity problem. Right? You have an equity problem. Do you have people who are being promoted and paid at a disproportionate or inequitable rate in comparison to their peers, and is it demographically based? Do you see a very clear pattern to where women get promoted a third of the percentage that men, white men, are being promoted? Like, that tells you where your measurable equity problem actually is. But talking about, he also wanted more examples of companies who have tried a thing and it had a measurable impact on the company, and two that stand out to me are a Walmart example, which I’m not going to lie, makes me shudder a little bit. They are not my favorite company. And indeed, so the Walmart example, Walmart implemented an initiative to improve social mobility for their employees. They did it through free education and upskilling. They were specifically targeting the frontline workers, which a significant amount of their frontline workers identify as black, Hispanic, or Latino or Latin, who were not moving into higher-paying roles within the company. So they saw that there was inequitable promotions occurring. The impact of the initiative when they actually rolled this out was 20% higher rate of retention among program participants. So 20% more people who participated in this program actually stayed with Walmart, saving Walmart money on having to rehire for those positions, and an 87.5% higher likelihood of promotion for black program participants compared to non-participants. 87 and a half percent more.
